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thisisasoapbox
thisisasoapbox

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Ep4 Elly Clarke ~ class(y) drag, derby china, and real fur coats

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this week’s episode of thisisasoapbox Sam Edward interviews Elly Clarke. Elly Clarke is interested in the impact that networks, mobility and communication technology have upon our relationships with ourselves, other people and the environment as well as upon concept of history and the ways in which histories are learned and narrated.

Elly Clarke’s multidisciplinary practice uses mediums such as photography (analogue & digital), video, performance, drawing, slide shows, songs, text, participatory, and web-based medias. Often this involves working with different groups of people from members East London Council Estates, passengers on the Trans Siberian Train from berlin to moscow; from small businesses and community centres in Birmingham to owners of portraits by a Victorian portrait artist.

They discuss issues around bringing politics into your work; how class affects the work in which you do; and how real fur coats provide weird and interesting dimanitics.

Hello ND welcome to this is a soapbox,a place where we can examine how politics and art are smashed together.I will be AU host to Sam Edward This week, I enjoying by incredible artist,Elly Clark. Eli Clark is interested in the impact. The networks, mobility andCommunication Tlogy have upon our relationship with others, other peopleand the environment, as well as the concept of history and the ways inwhich histories are learned and narrated. Eliclark's multidisciplinarypractice uses mediums such as photography, anlogandigital, videoperformance, drawing slide shows songs, taxt, participary work and web basedmedias. Often, this involves working with different groups of people frommembers of London's counsil estates, passengers on Transhiberian trains,small businesses and communities in the centers of Bermingham and the owners ofportraits by Victorian Portrait arters. This interview will focused on twoprojects: A Classi lecture where alicharc focuses on class andinheritance, esponsibilities, and the implications of inheritance andHashtags agoine a drag identsity that is played out not only by any clerk butby other bodies in different physical places. We joine the interview talkingabout the Sajigna Porter, so yeah. If I felt like I was tout of having to be indragit away and the're, not at the end of that, I just thought God. I justneed to talk about technology and the body- and you know so. Sijina kind oferose tha had already ad already written the songs for Sojia Theforeid,this projectwere around the same time, and then it kind of Feara devellotaround that sat's funny that I'm in the midst of producing this album now andnow we're talking about this- and I was just watching the video again and Gagomy God year. It's like S. I've spent this morning just likedalving into all of that, because I think the last time I let your websiteI kind of skipped over that B'cause. I was more focused on t the classylecture and then see all this other work as well. I I did think it musthave been like Whitlash does, is go going back and forth from these fromthese two, like opposite ispections of life, and I thought that you were doingthem both at the same time, be our saying that Sir Jina came afterwards. Asort of was that an active, like you say, was you were like I'mjust sort of sick of being around thisord like structured. No, I mean that was really just oneproject, although I did do a project for my history of our a level when Iwas seventeen and already wanted pokson work so privately own, so I mean ibingclass has been a huge kind of m. You know: I'see. I've been veryaware of massive Um discrepancy, andthan privilege, since I was supeanyou and also in the blindness of the people involved, often Um, and so I was sort of reluctant too. I knewthat my great gregreat grandfather, you know portrayed all these people and had a lots of pressure for my family todo a project just about him, and then I realize I can use that expectation thatIAM, like a girl who studied history of Eart, who what is interested, I myancestor, you know so that was my basically excuse to kind of go intopeople's houses. I really love thed. The lecture became oirolio and that'sredible. I love the fact that you had the conversations with these peoplethat are so tatched from from as like a more normal sense ofliving. What made you want to go back into this tworld, I'm assuming you onlyyou only we experience is a child hat. Then you likelaughed, when you went offMetbalin into Londo Lasupahik. Why did you want to go back? Well, I don'tthink you can never leave it behind. I think it's just mastive and I alos feltthat there was never disgusted enough. You know it was not as one of thethings that's the most devisive, an things in O R in British culture thatis kind of Um that really dictates people's trojectories, but also whatreally he saw was very aware of his...

...child and a teenager when people erebeginning to no figure out all they wanted do and todream about future Careez things like that was actually how limited tickllythe girls. You know the people who were growing up as girls going to Gillschools and the expectations put on them and what they thought they wanted,which essentially to marry this this boy that they already knew I'm going toMarrano with one scene Anso. I was TRU enough Onetha to go to swimming andsoper Bartic a was like properly flat. I mean I til LampatCheste, O shtrthaawful thing about your body's Nevic and also I was queer, butI didn't know- and I couldof Ansee, these girls 'cause they're, all likeBuzerle in Wite, he overen and stuff, but then also kind of had this likedraw to then tet kind of repulsion, because they were like I'm going tomarrow wit Woll. Now I'm going to marry himthrowing hemself back of e smanteland stuff, and I was just like Kinon in this position. My shivering skinny,like rat in the pool just going, that's crazy that you think you're going tomarry him and you probably will one of you will marry him actually, becauseit's almost preordained. So then I thought I' Bee. You know, I think, alot about freedom and and also this idea of privilege s being.You know that, if you're born into money that you just have all thefreedom of the world, actually you don't you know and that she it's a very,very strong, pervasive culture that is extremely damaging to a lot of people.So if you are queer which is partlyf what my lectures about y? U K, what doyou do with this inheritance on my case, IIS, just as Ou know its this crate ofChina? That's going to come in my direction: Rondis! Yes, a thif, DarbyChina, that's hunding from daughter to to daughter's daughter a daughter, it'slike, so I ant fucking it up 'cause. I've gotno daughter and I got no child' at all. So what do I do with it? You Kn W.that's like the thing that is just asume. You know the heterosexual kindof way of life is assumed and actually also it should ove based on CrimaGelito, which the eldest boy, you know who becomes the and he has no choice soheathgay thand, it's exauster, you know F, he won't marry and you know sothinking about panicqueerness and Clars and and the kind of burden of yourancestry Ashley about the kind of inner in a world where you know privilege,wos changing now covet, but you know really now the privileged people e seemto be more of a jet Sat. You have a flat in New York, O flat ononly Bou, aplace in Paris O place in the sun whatever, and he travelled ory light B.But you know the kind of the people I visited as well a lot of them. Theirclothes would be really thread there, like the money that they actually haveis all in their stuff that they didn't even collet their ancessors collectedsuch just this kind of like drugs. I'm doing my PhD about drag. You knowsomething about dragng ing, all different ways, but it drag of yourhistory got there and en all the Um the expectations and stories everyobject that you se supposed to know about the story of everything object.That is in your house, in which ancestor this that and the other and Hokind of you know borne into this mesh of stuff. That actually has nothingreally to do with you, who you know S, just sois this. This really strangething and then n the other hand. My friends, you know in my state schoolwho are my best friends and my best friend's Mong, couldn'tread, and you know single mom raise two kids whatever you know she wants to bea doctor and she went to Kings College. She was the first persent family, youknow, so I just you know, particularly O, that supper swimming party, where Iwas talking about who they're in to marry an is o only wan to marry. Tol Ut,certainly not someone. I know now, and you know, weres your kinof ambition todo anything beyond just getting married to someone. So you know- and my friendsmeanwhile, were wanting to be ollsourcing whether they went on tobecome those things I don't know, but the fact was it felt. I felt that people felt freer. You knowthey had less money, they you know, but they, but so so it's this. I supos. Iwant to complicate this kind of...

...dejectory of of class in a way you knowAnabou and find new ways to talk about privilege and and also in order to kindof understand some of the you know ship that is going on in our politics,because thers lasically is these people whoh've been raised out of that systemwho you know- and I think eatin was an extremely Hargh placeas. Well all thosegoding schools were and theywere very you know, and they did not allow forthe emotional development of these boys. You know who are now governing ourcountry and making the worst decisions ever in breakaat. You know play that. Ithink there's one sign I put you know in thenature, eat and mess in the ears and like thenumber of of prime ministers who went to Eton and then also this thing aboutthis weirdness of the sexis and within my own family, that o. If you'd been aboy, we would have sent Meu to eat him, but that would have crippled my parentsanaunceet and a Haut Manto. My Dad one he would have had t, have a differentjob. You know, and it's also like expectation whele girls can work harderand boys done and a all these sorts of things you know, and then, if I hadgone to eaten how different my life would have been, you kN W yeah, so theycol it. Soyeah Whitplash is actually quite a good Um, tern frat. She didfear of it like that, and it felt like I was sort of living in like I soid V had access to two worldsthat no one else in either of those worlds sort of stragdled in sait. No, Idid an we knew the only person. I know that Hos, probably like within months,gone from being in manor houses, to then being like being a drag ten dragoats. Like I don't I don't know, there's many other people. t Tha have done thathe same flit, EA hat must a e bein incredible. I just imagine, though,those Um those times in live must just feel so like separate, but then also soconnected 'cause in each of them. You are doing that drag like when you, letyou say ate about having to moderate, like your poshness like make yourself amore Passi and less post, depending on the other person that you're going tosee, and so it's just it's just this constant dragging of yourself, as Ithink also thing classes. The rears AFE debatees growing up around you knowt.There is a space now developing not enough, but for what people fromworking cross background to calk that class, but there is no doesn't feellike there's any space which ill so intrusting. This lecture was shown inand I developed at four gallery weddings part of this Um, its seriouscalled unsustainable privilege and mine as the lost cind of performance orexpition. That happened within that and it was you know. I had I'd left thatproject behind dea you know, and so it was interesting that then since then Ihad been due 'cause, I hadn't eevnd done formance when I was doing therichmen project at the beginning. It wasn't even performing at all thosewritings, the music and stuter performing t really just came throughSCINA. I did it Virguinaly for videos F for music videos, and then I did oneperformance. I Achi O residency in Canada and bond and we were supposed togive a little presentation of our work and I brought my drag to make e videosthere. AAs Still, actually I'm just GOINGNO. It was ten in Eday. I was justgoing to fin me dragon and, like Li, do the instantaneous culture to ave, entysemble we'd only been there three days and ee Si whois this drap queen. Thatway being here, you know so um and I realized something very interestinghappened when I put old drack, you know that I was red and completely read asbeing a man, not Aman dragqueen M and, as a result, gained male crovelag. Youknow by dressing up so a high fan. You know I gain occupy this different space,which is suppose it's also with it the whole. You know the class thing is SRtrying to fit in, and you know so in a way, I feel like Thi sort of whipblashing between these different kind of t e sites of privilege or notprivilege and learning how to be kind of to be to Noneserioq, but how tosurvive in it and behave and the coats...

...and all the rest of it. You know it'sreally good training, also for being queer because you're always you know,you'R offen feel kind of not quite right. You know, particularly in likenormative society, yes, so sort of all of those things thoug. I learn. It wasvery interesting to do that. Classy lecture 'cause by that POAIMT I hadbeing performing I'vde, been thinking, ut a lot around media and I was doingthese laptop formances whire. It also overlaug Oso, Sir Jina herself was veryalcival, so she references previous beforeches SYS on a lot so I' Now doingV, J sets and things I bring in old things old and bring them up againstother things, so kind of jueposing, different stuff and kind of one's ownArchi, whatever that is which of course, is and then think about class andpeople moving into a house and sleeping in the same bed. They might binconceived in and bringing their life in and conceiving other babies in that bedand then dying in that bed and then apicture hanging on the wall in thesame place. Hich et, no one thinks to move it. You know because that's justwhere it is so yeah the Carspais what's permanent and what you can move around.So the mote of the points at which you can drag things around and the pointswhich you have spaith to to kind of change that moldor to shift it or to Shit that template that you've kind of inherited it in away yeah. So I think I wan to really know my work, the monorchs ofcomplicate the stories that a kind of you know that these binary stories thatexist. I don't think in theend very helpful. We know that gender is notbinary. You know, privilege is not binary Likeso, it's always morecomplimented. My last song on my eps called Mr More Blur or less torder thantalking about it and to try and be in this kind of space of of the kind ofnot quite gray area 'cause. It's not Grayareo, don't know, but more aboutthe tose. You can kind of oscillate and you need to find your spaith and thenee anyn order for that to happen. Also, you need home conversation and I needto have the ability to hear views that youdon't like an ability to respond and to feel respected. Andto respect. You knowwithin that Um so tup that part of it, but then I alsoreally really really hate the CAS system in the: U Kme what it does inthis country. You know so ovistorally and that's also kind of and A. I know that I am actuallyprejudiced when I hear a really push voice. So I suppose it was also thattrying too, even though I understand that theycan't help, you know it's very hard that she change her accent. You knowNoto chool ether, its atuly, very difficult to shedthe. You know that isa you know. You grow up speaking like that and that's kind of you know, and when iave played some of therecordings audio recordings to my stoms, I was teacher a Coventry like twentyeleven or something, and they couldn't believe actually howpposh these voices work. 'cause. You don't really hear them. So it's alsothe idea that you know there's this whole kind of Su Section of society.Osubstirol word you know. Sexual Sita has a lot of Control Inter Gor F. Theland. Historically, you know is behind lots of these scstatues that need tocome down all this sort of stuff. You know, where is the money from all thesequestions? Who is really interesting? Thoughwhen that that's a likegenerational and you call it like generational drag? Don't you in therature ancestral, that's ancestral dragon. Ilove that concept and of the idea and D, and I do want to, even though Ithought I wanted to talk to you more about a Classia lecture. I do want totalk you more about Sir Joana, because that seems so interesting to me and inthe videoisis instantaneous culture on you website, and you talk about theidea of digital drag and how edit saying I was saying earlier and as Iwas watching that I just want Ta know, I I sometimes feel like there's twoways I make is one: is that it's a tool to have a conversation about somethingor it's more of like a knee jerk? This needs to happen. If it doesn't happenlike something is wrong. If it doesn't...

...happen and I'm just more interested, what is Thi Ajona Carratsir, does itfall into one of those catagrooes for you 'cause? It feels like bog yeah. Nois no. I mean I I I've been thinking about that. If the impact mae phonesand stuff since lete for twenty years now and La she fits before 'cause, evenat my under other, I was at least in undergraduate history, ofabout Nineto,five to ninety eight- and I was writing articles even chapter Tean, ten aroundthe Internet and what it meant, and I wrote my desttation party about thefunction, projection n them will not knowing it was going into a digitalfuture Ealy, no, that the future was going to be digitals. So what you dowith object, so this whole idea of that that sort of you know these objectsthat need to be kind of or in our world tat, they're, changing, Ou, know,honest n or need for them as changing and museums are going through thisnowsort of like twenty years Alonhe can to do with he o objects. Do we need andright now we' shut out, t e museums, you know: Are we going to flock backOrno? You know so, but at the same time of course, I'm a artist and Iyou know,and I stood in front of paintings that have made me cry and Ihave seen amillion times. You know on on Arma screen, but the instantaneous culture that itwas urchint theywere really the way those. So the songs really lead to thewhole character of Te Jiner Andhey Olly Sout, a stotes poems scl. What happenedwith my first set of three sons. I wrote, I think in two thousand and nine,which was insantaneous culture, fonly, don't write and Gance Oline it year casI oingn journeys, so that means totally alone with her. They all came out theholiday. I went to hom in friend of wine and I just had a break cup. A wasfeeling really cut up and my friend was just on her phone, the entire holiday.I be aehaver and I just felt so lonely. It was like this is so I went sochiefly back to England and I flew back to Berle whene. I was living. They justwrote these three poems. Basically, they just came out of the time I was inthis pump band. Um Andi can send your recording of instantingis culture as weplayed INTHI OT, Om, Arbo, Masro, an Um, and I came back and I said I've got andit was a bandle of six about six women in Affur in Aten, Thirties, um and weeall artists, and none of us could really carragees very well and we tookin turn so whoever had an idea for the son which direct that song. So we sat osons were completely weird sounding they didn't realy. We did have a soundsomehow then o o some always have an idea for a beep, and then I would comewith this Sy. I'm like I've got this po in I row you know antthis and then thatwould rturn into an we just work out as the son. So I Hawas I had these threesongs in the band and Soyes for two thousand and nine. Two thousand tallsin that band and I think it was around twelve Ronthe iphone and then that'swhen everybody was literally noicing phone, all the entire time. You know,and you couldn't have the excuse of not having seen your email. Yet you knowthe idea of the kind of pressure to be constantly available. Ou Miss OUTF, ajob. If you dodn't have an Eyefrigt I've resisted, you know I goin to havethe shity o find OA friend of mine. Now she was Harron Morriston, who wasliving with Anderniconats, really gre elgous. I don't no yeah. He used to runF fearless fillage, thingoh, deous, Isestin Banningham, and I lived withhim ther. When is I work? U Comentru. He said to me: Ani, I'M TORRS TO BESENGI IP last Yer O. I finally got an Eyfin and then then Iwas like. Actually these songs are like a Matifestan manifest of my work likethey have to. They have to reach a big audience and as they sort of likedifficult to listen to bad rocksons, that's not going to work s. They needto be possils. So then Sigina is a completely collaborative Um entity. SoI then found someone to help me make that song into a Popsong ochonic dance,whatever it is m, and every single SOMEWA workdn with a different personUm and...

...the essays that a menthese two eones,two great eys and Valei who Acoerwho were couples that came for Wim, a EIOnir videoos. They coun O stop San a CSE cult was styled by them and youknow we en made this video together, Um and then we shot the other another one.I think in New York. So every single calebration is Gina is pretty much. Iwork a lot with Ladimir VAGELEC, whon, spacen, ogred, hes Myse, a Vory, longterm collaborator, and these three songs te Tee herl with this gy ste word,who I just met for the first time. Last weekend, after nearly six months ofworking owa razy en he said he thought it was so funny because then you know, one of the son was shootingon Sundayas Coul tuna often turned me on and we were working on. I'd sent himlike a bit of a thing or the piano, or I just almost sen, im voice, Momo andone of them. I haven't even throught how this would have been for him. Hewas looking after his momes in their eightives, so he just ould have endedup there and looked down. I you after his moth and then lit besund an boy,smoking, sh, etention E, this, my Naios Baa, a that's amazinganyway, te being kind anteresting Bin, also, what's being weird, and this timeas I've been working removerly over distance with Sijinah for years youknow, undoing, N, live streame performances and sending our emailsaying you know from the intimacy of your inbook or your hand, helped Pon,and all this AAn langage that's been used. Now. You know it did my first simultanos performance in toend andFourteen Asin Niathein theair Simulaton O. I waswatching. I was looking all this stuff this morning and because I associateany like art, that's on zoom now I associate locked out Sol s O I wowyou've been really busy like this is like years worth an work. Don'n seeaother o its a date. Oh itliterally has been years worth of work, and it doesfeel so much like it is is that is, our work is now being asumed, and it's sointeresting that you manage that you've hat you've like tapped into that andlike your you're Subbich, more familiar with this patform and the work has grow.So this pat already feels. I don't often think his work and work reallyfeels like of its time. Very often, usually, mi comes in and out a fewyears eefore after, but this work really feels like it was like the mostperfect time, for it was right now and it couldn't have existed before afterand like now. Is these past, like five years, is just pait for no, it's beingreally interesting, hit's been quite depressing ase, because oknow ive, being thik loneliness, is abig part of what I'm thinking about around technology and taround peoplekind of Arong. The connection on the one hand- and he knows this very much- is very visterally experienced when,for instance, whet I was doing Sir Jinas stimulating sexy symultineoussimilation of Te night be in Barlin, and then I I had someone in I had to rol the knaves in New York hadVladimir Woy Hade never met that point either. I have someone n burning on someone ofBristol Sobati no was in the same city, and I remember one time particular Ihad the costume ecause. I worked to t e Lo with e young designer who made oSoufood as Shin as his particular performance and itink whole things,Arar, tre round, which included paying everybody W in one of those completelyisgrobing. So I was kind of wearing the affot forthe first time, delonstrating the dances and I had my fullmake up on toShaen Hato make him fell and then, at the end of this forher store it was on Google hangout to that point,Cauzela, Dosn't, Anventur, yet and then at the end it Goes Oi, O Lik Youre, theonly one left on here. You know, then,...

...the screenes huge meal, Ik sad dry,queen sitting on Ri floor in my insinmy. You know Flang Balle like going yeah.This is really shit. I really want to have a dream. Now you Knoo Hos, say sois those moments of kind of nothaving those things which you know we haven't found really weraround. Yet you know, I think we shouldn't try. You know we have to haveboth you know so so Soland has been. I illness wish. I hadn't Beenn vk about thispisode long cause nowlike. This is in a way I could have worse nightmare hoteverybody is sort of you know, shok about the drag of physicality. You knowan Nour in an era when your hand shape can be deay for your breats quizes, Ote,Sois, also Ai. The one thing that everyone wants right now is just just ahuman contact. I can go the whole day without seeinganyone and it can just feel so lonely M- and I is it so incredibly isolating. Icoagine for you like being in this, like isolatedg world through theInternet, and now it being the only thing that must be emotionally sodragging if you r yeah exactly, and it makes me think, do you it's somethingthat I've been drinking about for the Pastli about year. Have you ever heardthe Artif Jade Lonsera yesyes she sushides. She did look twenty four hourperformance and she a the bit the most take Wav or went toa talk of her. Thebiggest takewuar had was the fact that they m talk about like the care that comeswith the performance and the care that needs to come afterwards and whatever Ihear any performance artist now talking about their work, I always want to askl what do you do in that in that care? What do you do afterwards? What do youdo to like psycoself up and then also after a performance? Is that? Is itsomething that you do? Well I mean? Normally, you have have a audience, soyou have the economy here, the audience of the Nackground Um. You know you werein t e green room where we were in a Shitty, toile rob youre getting ready like in a cupboard and then you go out and you performwhen you get kind of high from the formers, then you just go into the CRORand Hav drinks and hung out with your friend so non, that's tecur, and whenit's online? Yes, it's really different D. So because there's no audience ICIKE,you up, I know whatis and and dont. If you know Christine vergto drank theformer whos facin. I have heard Al Yes sa Christine. I mean pool behindChristie, his friend of Mine and and I'm actually doing collaboration,the Goin of custinis dog, working on IO training, to probably over a few months,collaboration and a waking, Mideo togeher, but Christine's work, partlyin Sparles my title from PhD. Actually this whole dragon physicality CSINIDISobjection, but it the color was often talk between the thongs. Around can otget oyor phone. Look at the person next to you hold them N, touchthe, Ha, O,know, Bolber and, and then Christine did has done a series of onlineperformances as well and the first one I saw it just made mereally sacx an like for the amount of power and energyeither Christhe Paul H, Christine wer putting was putting into that woman's,including in Putin Mike Fren into the mouth and like screaming intwin them,but knowing that they were all on emselves you knowan thing and yeah. It's just. I think ere was a lotof falloul. Thas coin t happen from this that we haven't. Quite you knowthat just seem just talk about ASES cunno grown of beformos wee not aboutthe children and o o egolig, O Maev. You know, but people being afraid of touch and Ithink in terms of care. I did a performance last and en, if you saw itbut Lik, last Ju was the first performance ofVladimir and I atchalen Al together in...

...the same space, and that was all aboutwell being jou. You sat across the table from each other, yeah yeah so and that's the one that we thenredid on Soom, you know and m. So I think CA. Car is a huge thing andyou know really also feel ta if we had onterms Oconomim helping the world, ifcare could have been a kind of aim, ander method, Anda way of thinkingabout things over the fighting for right, we might be in a better place.You know because Rice Um, a very human centric, you know care sobe, the plaandplants and other things all care about the technologie O that you all may king,for instance, you know Ai Development, so I think I bet there is, I mean,think tha people low talk about car much more now, nothing! That's a verygood thing! Um! It's funny that Youam bought up that. What was the name ofthat last performance? You Tol, mother, en when you sat across the table, ve go.How are you, Sir Jinas participat tre soak opera about wrestling with wellbeing in the nite? Was it yes, so that piece it really? It was the first onetime I thought about the documentation and the video afas coos on the videoididt see afor work. Do you see the documentation as like integoral to thework? Does it become something or is it of those videos or websites? Just forthe documentation's sake, ISIEAN thatis, interesting 'cause? I did her intervieactuon with somebody the beginning of Lockton Hes, who Havseen a performance I did in Munich in O thosant and sixteen andfinly enough. When nock down happened, he thought about Sirjina who's likehouse Joinin, an Ta Coiss, an my websine saw, was doing this onlineprpormance. So then, and he was like, why have you left e Oll, your shiftyvideos, basically Onfuto, and I think I never really made the decision, but nowit'LD be a decision to get rid of them and I'm almost of e like this is mydigital detritus. You know we all have it instead of me trying to curate. Itis also a common t. He fat, actually you might delete it, but it's probablysaved somewhere anyway or a Dosi ose. So but then, interestingly enough, Ididn't put the clasty lecture on Nineand. That is hidden as it felt so Ifeel very passionately and politically and strongly around their themes.Thatwortars the Jiner, but the clarsy lecture fell like that felt like themost exposing work to ever make. You know in his way neea having a proncinground a paranicus on a sage. You know s join whatever wife, but it I think it'sbecause calss is still such a sensitive topic for very good reason. You know-and it's very it has a Roo Massiv reaction. It has when, if someone youknow not Havingwe, someone like accuses me of being like from that sect of thekind of you know like. I will actually yet, like the really know from thatkind of abording school kind of you know, Rin Whil, I see s blanket, I feelextremely offended and it will be like as appetriter. For me. You know. Thereason is because I could have been the Rightyou know who O my parets haddifferent politics, an an paret hated public school system, and they wtheyfeel that public schools shousd be banned. I think it's terrible this Atwoto system t hut people Il Seto Him. Yes, so the videos are just there, but now Ido reuse them and it is you know. The alchoive is also something Alright Abotin Min PhD as well an how do you inhabit and embody and archive andwhats it Moran. We know what of the arcive is worn on our body and in termsof drag, what can be shifted? What can you move around, so you know you? Canyou can play with the perception of your agender when you can't play? Youknow the color of your skin or you can't play with the hit? If you know,thocolor havwoty looks now necessarily you know. This is a base. Canvosyyou're working with one final thing that I was thinking in the Um in thepiece of writing before and after Sirjina, where there's no DOUBLEINCYoue going on, I am, is torted around with the pictures of you and I thinksome one else in the in that big Faco a...

...it reminded me because I, even thoughnow I am in the middle of the countryside, I fom my whole life ofwarn lotetweed and loads of barber. I very much like Te. It's almost myslflike taking back of because I don't see why lis like it should be someonest withlike farmers and shooting and that sort of thing, and it's really like anactive thing its NA. Why did you choose the fur cope for that series of imagesyeah to be on the Internet? I I don't think I really chose. I think it wasmore or less assembled for me 'cause. I Look E, I finy food cats and then theylike e titis nutrlly. You know I'm really. I don't condone at all fur wearing, buton the other hand, it's something that exists in the world alreadyt. You knowW at I mean Ay real. I thought it was fun. Really, Oh wow. If somebody goughtit someone, I think it was someone's grandmother. You know S, it's Thisidea,it stuff, hiny arounded eratic as well, a's there and we shot it in this clubyeah and it was really- and I didn't even know they wantd to do Shi. I gotthat and they Saik Wee grage O sh, oh wow, uo incredit, their incrediblepictures, Tiqi build o lass she's, really amazing, and she is a goodfriend of Vladimir. So I think it. I met Vlademi for the first time aftereighteen months of working online together. So we did all these formancesand museums and stuff never meeting, and we finally met in a Gayar andVerlin ar really noofic. That we've been having the longest es a videomessage, Egteaton Tat, and then I went Toco and stay with him in Bel Gray, andI stayed there for a week and he said Oh yo and I w was really funny becauseVladimire had been being sejiner in thoug great so long I was sort ofSijina was famous and Ol grade as a result, eleve no I'd, never been thereand Iad never saw me Mytelt, because this idea that she can be played bydifferent people that inset of thesor bodies everywhere exactly so that wasreally funny so they'd already R Thei e l elies coming so we do shoot wit,Belios, Gina, Ho tsothat's, so interesting. If that make that remidsme, I haven't fo memory years, my when my grandmother passed away e, we went round and we cleared outhorbungalow and we found some of these fir coats and we assumed their fakebecause my youngrandmother lived in a one bedroom bungalow in BelgreandCoventry not place that has a lot of money. My sister started wearing these.These FIR cotes and she's allergic to a lot of different animal hars and one ofthe animal has his lege to his rabbit and it a my my poor, like lonely,grandmother had six fur coats and er cupboard and AJST like o the hell. Hasshe done this? I A and it turned out that she had like a pot of diamondrings and were just like Nad andwhere. Does it come from like yeah it was? Itwas so confusing a D. I think it really speaks that sort of like weird elementsof class and weird things that that different classes like force you to dothe Fanalloshn is in this one: bedroom, tiny, bongalow, efact, yes, but n spentso much money, clearly on diamond rings and fur coats, and maybe she didn't bndT. maybe it was m theywer, maybe very nor lost down, but she could have soldthem and made money and lived less uncomfortably so yeahthat. It's veryinteresting H and I think that does happen. Qquie Lot, you know, atheseclasses are just impressed onto people again they unless they actively fightagainst it, which a lot of the time will mean annoying or pissing off theirfamily. You have to exapter yeah and Fr from either side if you're, privatelyeducated and like from that side of society and you break away unlessyou've got sports of family members like a lot of my friends, but that youyou look down on. If you, if you aline itoff anyway, you might o o Er ogetheryequally. If you're working cluss, then you go to university and you come backand then Yo Thenno en your friends taught you Yeh t just that. Thatsthemes is the kind of the drag of these...

...templates. You O cass tenplaces, O theact in all areas wherever you are, which is also well. I feel that we allhave to also feel that we can talk O, be wic to really understand class andthe kinoimpact of it on all of us. We all have to be ob to speak. Youknowright from the opper class that have you know Ballin in ubsteeteprivilege, right down to you, know wherever Youre Hor thate. It has to be. You know and I think generally all needto feel yeah. We just need time more open, debat and those indics exactlyeve. Every single person will have a story like you've just had about yourgrandmother. You know it's like it's. Not. That class only affects certainpeoples, just the working classpeople e affected. All the you know in themiddle as the there nd Eill say. What point do you have parrently changedclass or you know what does that mean? Al Marry someone from its beingowhatever, you know and then ther abilities to talk about it without itbeing yoknownsort of so I don't really know it's very difficult. It isdifficult, but I have had some really interesting. I dont do you get in touchwith Fox iive reched ou cause. We had it very interesting. Ive actually nevermet box in person, but we had a very interesting discussion on the phone andit became quite heated. You know, 'cause. We were Sart O talking. 'causeFox was very much speaking from a kind of working classman ran from thatIngrat University and you know being an artist and things like that, and then Iwas sort of dealing with this other and talk about people in there sortafemassive houses with all their and treasures, and things like that and itwasw. It was really interesting 'cause we noticed we were able to SSTEP UC andgo God. That's really his feeling, really emotional now and really eat it,and yet we' trying to unpack that so sort of Inte processe. The conversationyou know is very is very emotional and very moto and very and to evenunderstand why that would be the case. You know why is it that we can talkabout it's easier for us to talk about sex than S, to talk about cluskseasiest,to talk about sex or somethon Yo do e know. You know to talk about sexterrapists, for instance, it's easier to talk Abell, that than APS an Tebatcass or about you know, and then we've all got different asuse towards moneyas well, and all those things are just stubbed that lyching our shadows. Thatreally is affecting things B T I think the thing thatwold really hate aroundthe color. You know it is possible when you are born into this urm into a certain privilege and you getCental School of your choosing. Despite us, being APB BEINGSAN CA. Look atwhatevero people, don't, as we know, people Lonk of what they canov alreadyknow, and it's an extremely blinkersed existenc. You know that they've nevermet anybodywo. Never has anyone in their house, probably who had been to astate school think how? How can that be so much theworld that they're in perspective and everything that they're not not able to access ll? Not You knowso that that is really not to me is reallyshol tings, just o yeah their halerisn, and they are thepeople also who ar on the whole, through the Tories. Making decisionsabout US- and you know mean the whole ridiculous thing in the beginning of T.his don't go only any cruises, you know and don't share the same balhroom withOll the people o Ar House so on what planet does he think we're living? Youknow that most people have the option to usea different bathroom and the people there. They live with oeor even be Abtosleep separately, or so it was just the absodat. Lack of you know: Don't gosop your hands and don't go and cruises. Oh okay, one of that counsel, my nextcruse Jug iinit ho. That's what's cary now and that's what feels I think veryoppressive, and it feels like having really bad parents whosbo who have thercontrol and do not have the wisdom and cannot see what is haend. You know, andwe saw that cunning. I delop campaigning carssing. I she telay Bobefore you know the last election and her conersations with people, and I Irealize a're so in that 'cause. I do think people can change their minds ordo you think you can have conversations you can, but you need time, ananneedtrust in either I sat up and it needs...

...to not be your wrong. I think recently,politics Ta, has always been currentuly tribal and has always been tribal andhaving real conversationhas always been difficult, bu think even more so nowthan ever, because if they eyeah because there is, is so tribal IIS. Ifyou do not agree with me, then you are against me and you are to man. Oean Inoshut you off and I'm going to Dyor, DPNVEW and block you exactly, and sothat's also where se giner comes back in Yo knownl whywer. She saying youknow ready just kind of trying to make peopleweand. It wasfunny ecause. I A first thought of performing with this phone thing. I wassheing one during now it runs doing it Thn Ho. It's also been interesting too.Now that everone else is saying that, then, what like now going to saythrough an or Towhat, can dri afford me to say that conseil as me, this was this: is the soap box followus at this is a soapbox. I Have Been Your Hose Sam Edward. You can find me.I am Sam Edward on Instura, my guest this week has been eddy clerk and youcan find the Ady Clark, dtcom links to everything Cil be in the show nitesbelow. Thank you for listening to this weeks. This is a soapbox.

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